Why use segments in Google Analytics?

Andrew Raynor



When talking with customers about Google Analytics, you often hear the same thing: “I’m not really using Google Analytics because I don’t know what I’m looking at. It’s just too much”. And that’s a pity because you can learn a whole lot about your website and your audience with Google Analytics’ data. So, is there a simple way to use Google Analytics without getting lost? There might be, by using segments.

What’s a segment?

In Google Analytics a segment is a way to specify the data you’re seeing in every standard view. Google Analytics just throws it all in there, on one big pile of data. This means that when you’re looking at a standard view in Google Analytics you see: ‘all sessions of all visitors’, you see: total revenue, all pages, average time on page of all users, the landing pages of all visitors.

You might recognize this: You’re in the Acquisition section and you’re all happy, because you’ve created the perfect table. You’ve used the advanced filter option to include the Medium: “Organic” and you’re seeing the data you want to see. Then you think: “I’m curious to see which pages these visitors looked at, let’s take these filters to the next section of Google Analytics.” You hit the Behavior section and Poof! your filter is gone. Oh, the frustration!!!

If you want to know which pages people coming from organic search visit, you need to find another way. A segment helps you to narrow down the aggregated data Google Analytics shows, into data you want to see and need, to answer a specific question you have. You can use that segment throughout the sections, the segment doesn’t get lost when switching between sections. For instance, if we want to know which source customers who bought an eBook came from, we can create a segment of people who bought an eBook. By applying that segment and looking at the Acquisition – Source/Medium section, we can conclude that most of our eBook customers came from a newsletter. Goodbye frustration!

Why do you need segments?

Without segmentation, all data you see is aggregated. This makes it really hard to draw conclusions. As Avinash Kaushik once said: “All data in aggregate is crap.” And I certainly agree with him. If you want to draw a valid conclusion, you need to specify your data.

For example, you can’t just say that most of your visitors visit your site around noon. Well okay, you can. But what does it mean? This data is so aggregated that you can’t build a strategy on it, it doesn’t provide any insight. Based on this data you might conclude that promoting a new product around noon is the way to go. But what if a large amount of your non-paying visitors visit your site around noon, but your high-potential visitors visit your site in the evening? Then you could’ve made the wrong decision based on non-specific aggregated data. So with a segment, you can zoom in on a specific part of your data. And if you do that right, you can make important business decisions that help your business move forward.

How to create a segment in Google Analytics?

First of all, creating a segment in Google Analytics isn’t dangerous. You can edit your segments, you can delete your segments, but you won’t delete the actual data you have. For me this was an important realization, because it meant that I could just ‘play’ with segments without any consequences.

The first step is thinking about what kind of segment you need. Which question do you want answered? What’s important for your business? And where can you find the data to create that segment? Do you want to segment on demographics of the user? And/or, the behavior of the user? Or, the technology the user uses to visit your website? And so on. Knowing what it’s called what you’re looking for in Google Analytics really helps when creating segments.

The second step is adding the actual segment. You can find the segment section at the top of the page in every view from Audience down to Conversions.

add a segment in Google Analytics

This means that if you’re in Dashboards, Shortcuts, Intelligence Events or Real-Time section, you can’t see the segment section.

System segments

Google Analytics offers ‘fixed’ segments which you can find in the ‘System’ section. A lot of these segments are pretty darn useful. For example, there’s an Organic Traffic segment that groups all visitors that came from an organic search result to your site. Very useful, if you want to know which landing pages these users visit. Another example: There’s a Mobile Traffic segment, that groups users that use a mobile device to visit your site. Very helpful as well, for example to find out if the ‘time on page’ is what it should be, this might say something about the mobile friendliness of your site.

Custom segments

There are more segments to think of than the system segments Google Analytics offers. For instance, you can create a segment that filters out all visitors that spend less than half a minute on your site. Or you can create a segment that focuses on the organic traffic from all visitors from the Netherlands. Or, as mentioned before, create a segment based on the products visitors bought or a certain amount of revenue a visitor yielded.

I found this video on YouTube that explains creating a custom segment pretty well:

For me, a couple of segments are really useful. I have segments for every country that’s important for our business, for every product and for every product page. And I have a segment for every medium like Organic, Newsletter and in our case: plugin traffic.

Compare segments

A nifty feature in Google Analytics is the ability to add more than one segment for the same view of data. This means you can compare different segments. For instance, if you created a segment of visitors that stayed longer than 5 minutes on your website and created a segment of visitors that stayed less than 1 minute on your website, you can compare the two and find out more about the behavior of these two groups and in which aspects these two groups differ.


If you want to know what you’re looking at, when clicking your way through Google Analytics, segmentation is the way to go. If you have questions like, “how do the visitors from California behave on my site?” Or, “what are my newsletter visitors doing on my site?” “How’s my campaign going?” Creating a segment is the easiest way to go. It’s a way to dissect your data and actually know what you’re looking at, when looking at all the different sections in Google Analytics. Say farewell to your Google Analytics frustration!

Read more: ‘Facebook Page Insights explained’ »

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How to Just Start When it Comes to Writing

Andrew Raynor

There’s nothing more frustrating than the bright, white glow of an empty screen and the constant, blinking reminder from your cursor that you’re not making any progress.

How to Just Start When it Comes to Writing

Writing a strong piece – one that’s valuable to your readers and that you feel great about – isn’t easy.

But what if I told you there’s a simple formula you can follow to get more writing done in a single day than you did all last week?

A simple formula for real progress

You already know the toughest part about writing is getting started. If you can get the first sentence down, then the rest will follow.

Of course you’ll do re-writes, have edits to make, and you might even go back and add a thing or two. But doesn’t it feel incredible to just start?

Just starting the writing process is progress in and of itself, not to mention what follows: strong momentum, or what some refer to as “the flow”.

This simple formula for real progress is made up of two parts and will help you just start every time you use it.

The two parts are: “Focus Time” and “Refresh Time”.

If you’re familiar with the Pomodoro Technique, then you probably know where I’m headed with this. The idea is that you give yourself a specific amount of time to accomplish X, start a timer to hold yourself accountable, and FOCUS on X until your timer runs out.

Once your Focus Time is over, you’ll get some well-deserved Refresh Time.

Let’s say you’re working on writing a book, and you’re in the very beginning stages. You might choose “research publishing options” as your X, start a timer for 30 minutes, and FOCUS on researching publishing options until your 30 minutes is up.

Once your 30 minute Focus Time is over, you might give yourself 10 minutes of Refresh Time, and then start a new session to repeat the formula for another task on your list.

This formula is so powerful because it’s backed up by Parkinson’s Law:

Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion.

Give yourself a time limit, and you’ll get more writing done in a single day than you did all last week.

Seems simple, right?

Simple, but not easy. Let’s dig a bit deeper…

What comes with this simple formula

While this simple formula will help you make real progress, there’s more to it: what comes with this formula is required, but it’s typically left out.

In order for this formula to work, you must:

  • Plan ahead
  • Practice productivity, discipline and focus

Plan ahead

When I say plan ahead, I don’t mean that you have to plan weeks or months in advance; I mean plan the night before to help set yourself up for success tomorrow.

I like to call this “Win Tomorrow Today”.

It’s very easy to do, and all it requires is that before you shut down for the day, you take out a piece of paper or a sticky note, and write down the ONE thing you will accomplish tomorrow.

As an example, you might write down on your sticky note: “Write the table of contents for my book”.

Ever hear the saying from Brian Tracy “Eat That Frog”? Sounds pretty disgusting, but what he’s referring to is your one most important task of the day. Eat That Frog means you’re not going to procrastinate or make excuses as to why you can’t do it – instead, you’re going to sit down and do it.

Be sure to put that piece of paper or sticky note on your computer so it’s the first thing you see in the morning.

Practice productivity

Productivity means accomplishing tasks that matter to you and your business in an efficient manner. Now that you know exactly what you’re going to focus on first thanks to planning ahead, you’ve already started practicing productivity.

Planning ahead is critical for productivity, even if it means having a single task or a smaller goal you want to accomplish written down. This will take the guesswork out of what you should focus on first, which is what many people waste their time doing with the most precious hours of the day.

When you sit down at your computer and see your sticky note that says “Write the table of contents for my book”, all that’s left to do is set a timer and start your Focus Time.

When you practice productivity, you’ll be using the most effective hours of your day to make progress on a task or goal that matters to you and your business instead of getting stuck on other people’s agenda.

Practice discipline

Discipline means setting and sticking to a plan of action, and it’s often the case that even though you have the one thing you want to focus on written down and stuck to your computer so it’s the first thing you see, you get distracted before you start.

In order to practice discipline, start by breaking your ONE goal for the day down into smaller steps.

A lot of times what can hold you back from getting started, or what can distract you from focusing on the task at hand, is not knowing what your first step is.

This is an excuse you’re making to not start.

If your one goal for the day is to write your table of contents for your book, then breaking that down into smaller steps might look like this:

  1. Figure out what a table of contents includes
  2. Refer to my outline for consistency
  3. Edit

If it’s an involved task or goal you’re working on and you’re not sure what steps four, five and six are, don’t get caught up stressing about it. Focus on figuring out what your first step is, and the subsequent step will reveal itself.

“You don’t have to see the whole staircase, just take the first step.” ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

When you practice discipline, you’ll be eliminating the excuses that have been holding you back from making any real progress.

Practice focus

Focus means following one course until success and remaining distraction-free in the process. This is where we circle back to our simple formula for real progress.

You’ve planned ahead so you know what the ONE goal you will accomplish is, and in doing so you’ve already started practicing productivity.

By breaking down your ONE goal into smaller steps, you’ve removed any excuses you could possibly use to not take your first step.

Now all that’s left to do is set your Focus Time and just start.

In order to eliminate any distractions that might come up during your Focus Time, make sure you’re in a work environment you feel comfortable in and that you’ve turned off any notifications or pop ups that might break your focus.

Also, it’s helpful to have a piece of paper next to you. That way, if you think of an idea during your Focus Time you’re afraid you’ll forget about, or you remember another task you have to get done that day, you can write it down on your piece of paper and immediately get back on task.

When you practice focus, you’ll start making real progress on the tasks that matter to you and your business.

Start making real progress

Not feeling like you’re making any progress is no fun. In addition, it can spiral quickly and turn into things like a lack of motivation and a lot of frustration.

The good news is, you get to choose.

By using the simple formula above, planning ahead, and practicing productivity, discipline and focus, you’re choosing progress.

Stop the constant, blinking reminder from your cursor – all you have to do is just start.

If you’re ready to just start, I have the perfect guide to help you with this formula. It’s called The Mastery Journal: Master Productivity, Discipline and Focus in 100 Days.

The Mastery Journal walks you step-by-step through setting up four sessions of your Focus Time and your Refresh Time on a daily basis; provides motivational quotes and daily gratitude reminders; helps you develop a morning routine; and reminds you to plan ahead every night so you can Win Tomorrow Today.

Head over to TheMasteryJournal.com to grab your Mastery Journal today!

What are your biggest hurdles to just starting? What is ONE task you want to accomplish today? Share in the comments.

Andrew Raynor

Which redirect should I use?

Andrew Raynor



As an SEO or site owner, you are bound to run into redirects. Whenever you delete a page, change your URL structure or switch to a new domain, you are going to have to redirect your URLs. You have to tell search engine robots that there has been a change in your URLs and that they have to go somewhere else, temporarily or permanently. Choosing a particular redirect might impact your SEO, so be careful what you pick. In this article, we’ll give a brief of which redirect you could use.

Reasons to use redirects?

If you’re maintaining your site on a regular basis, your tasks include the redirection of URLs. There are many cases when you might use a redirect, but the following will pop-up often. You’ll need a redirect when you:

  • Delete a page or post
  • Transfer your site to a new domain
  • No longer want to use www in your domain
  • Enable permalinks in WordPress
  • Merge websites
  • Change your CMS
  • Change your URL structure
  • etc.

HTTP status codes

To understand how redirects work and how you can influence what a server returns to a browser, you need to know about HTTP status codes. A HTTP status code is a set number that a server sends to a browser following a particular request for a page. These codes may include 200, 301, 404 and 503, for instance. All codes serve a particular purpose. A 404, for instance, indicates that a page has not been found. A 503 means that the server is temporarily offline for maintenance.

If you want to maintain your site without fault, you need to know your HTTP status codes. Read up on them in the article HTTP status codes and what they mean for SEO.

Types of redirects

There are a couple of redirects that you’ll run into on a daily basis. These are the ones you should remember:

  • 301 Permanent redirect
  • 302 Found
  • 307 Temporary redirect

Not really redirects, but useful nonetheless:

  • 410 Content deleted
  • 451 Content unavailable for legal reasons

301 Permanent redirect

The 301 is one of the most common redirects; use this if you permanently want to redirect a deleted or moved page, or if you’ve changed something in your permalink structure. Using this redirect, you’ll tell search engine robots that this page is no longer available in this location and that it should no longer be indexed. If you don’t set a redirect correctly, chances are your visitors – and crawl bots – will see 404 error messages. That’s not something you want happening.

Since a 301 permanently leads visitors from the old URL to a new one, you should only use this if you’re sure that you’ll never use the old URL again. If you want to use the URL again, you need a temporary redirect. A 301 passes all the link value a discarded URL has accumulated over the years over to the new URL, thus making sure the new URL gains or retains value. If you want to learn how to implement your 301 redirects with WordPress, you can read this post by Jimmy or just use the redirects manager of Yoast SEO Premium.

302 Found

A 302 is a fairly ambiguous redirect and is often used to make a temporary redirect. The code means that the requested content is found, but it lives under a different location. Why? It doesn’t say. If you want to make sure visitors get to an alternative page when visiting this particular page, and you want to reuse the URL in the future, you can use a 302.

Since this is a temporary redirect, it doesn’t pass link value. Thus, it’s possible to reclaim the URL with its value intact. Don’t use it when moving a site to a new domain or when you’re doing other large-scale renovations on your site.

307 Temporary redirect

302s are often used to create temporary redirects, but with the advent of HTTP1.1 307 has taken its place as a valid temporary redirect. A 307 explicitly states that the requested URL has been moved to a temporary location and will be back in a while. Since this request can change in the future, the request has to keep being made with the original URL. Use this redirect if you’re sure that the move is temporary and that you’ll still need the original URL later on.

Not really redirects, but still

Besides the traditional redirects, you’ll find two more that don’t really redirect. However, these are still relevant for your day-to-day maintenance work on your site. You could see 410 and 451 as a message from your server saying: Hey, there used to be something here, but not anymore.

410 Content deleted

One of the biggest problems on sites is the amount of 404 error pages. If you look at your readouts in Google Search Console, you are bound to run into a few. These must be fixed as fast as possible because no-one likes these errors: Google sees them as a sign of bad maintenance, and visitors get confused by them. 404 errors often occur when the requested page or post was deleted from the site.

You could use a 301 to redirect the page with the 404 to a relevant page, or the homepage, but there might be a different way: tell search engines this page was correctly deleted with a 410 redirect. This way, they know that the page won’t return and can, therefore, delete the page from the index.

451 Content unavailable for legal reasons

Should you ever be ordered by a judge to delete a page or in case you get a notice and takedown request, you should give this page a 451 header. This way, you tell search engines that there was a post here and that you wanted to fulfill this request, but some legal reason told you not to do so. Find out how and why to make a 451 header, should you ever find yourself in that situation.

REGEX redirects

If you are an expert SEO and you need to do complex redirections, you may need to use REGEX redirects. With normal redirects, you specify a single source URL and a destination URL. With REGEX – regular expressions – redirects, you can, for instance, make a single redirect to move entire groups of URLs with a keyword to a new location. This could save you a ton of time while working on a massive SEO project. However, you should only use REGEX redirects if you know what you are doing because they can break your site.

Manage redirects with Yoast SEO Premium

Now, in all fairness: you are free to fix your redirects on the server or use other tools to help you. However, if you are a user of Yoast SEO Premium, you have the best possible tool to work with redirects at your disposal. The redirects manager of Yoast SEO Premium helps you to set the correct redirect. Whenever you delete or move a page, Yoast SEO will ask you how to treat this page: should it get a 301 or a 410? Or maybe a 451? The redirects manager supports 301, 302, 307, 410 and 451 redirects, all in an easy to manage workflow.

Working with redirects

Working with redirects is a daily job for many SEOs. In this article, you’ve discovered the different options to redirect pages and learned how and when to use these. Be careful when choosing your redirect, for instance, you don’t want to 302 your entire site when you’re moving to a new domain. This will lead to serious problems down the line. Think about what you want to accomplish and pick the most appropriate redirect method.

Read more: ‘How to properly delete a page from your site’ »

SEO New Hampshire




























































Ask Yoast: duplicate content issues on my shop?

Andrew Raynor



If you own an eCommerce site, you might wonder how to optimize your category pages and your product pages. Could you have the same content on your category page and your product pages? If you have the same content on multiple pages of your website, would Google know what to rank first? Or would it cause duplicate content issues? This Ask Yoast is about the optimization of category and product pages of your online shop. Hear what I have to say about this!

Jeroen Custers from Maastricht, the Netherlands, has emailed us, asking:

“My product pages and category pages have 99% the same description, except for the color. Although the category page gets all the links, one product page ranks. Does Google see my pages as duplicate content?”

Check out the video or read the answer below!

Duplicate content on your shop?

Check out the video or read the answer below!

The answer is simple: Yes. So what should you do is optimize your category page for the product. And only optimize the sub pages, the product pages for the individual product colors, and then make sure that the category page gets all the links for that product. So you should improve your internal linking structure so that when you mention the product, you link to the category page and not to the specific color page underneath that.

If you improve that category structure in the right way, then that should fix it. If it doesn’t, then noindex the product pages and “canonical” all of them back to the category, so that Google really knows that the category is the main thing. That’s what you want people to land on. Most people want to see that you have more than one option.

If they search for the specific product and you do not noindex it, so if you choose for the first option, then Google should send them to the right page. So try that first. If that doesn’t work, noindex as product page and then “canonicalize” them back to the category.

Good luck!

Ask Yoast

In the series Ask Yoast we answer SEO questions from followers. Need help with SEO? Let us help you out! Send your question to ask@yoast.com.

Read more: ‘Crafting the perfect shop category page’ »

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143: How to Prepare for Your Big Break Before it Surprises You: Interview with Jill & Kate

Andrew Raynor

Stop me if you’ve heard this story before. An aspiring musician moves to Nashville with nothing but a dream and her guitar. She plays in dive bars to whoever will listen in hopes of being discovered and becoming a big star. We all know how the sad story usually ends. Or do we?

143: How to Prepare for Your Big Break Before it Surprises You: Interview with Jill & Kate

Imagine for a moment that you are a musician playing on a small stage at an open mic night at a Chinese restaurant. You’ve got a little medley of songs in your repertoire which includes a tune by Kelly Clarkson (the original American Idol).

Now, imagine Kelly Clarkson is actually sitting in the audience and she absolutely loves your sound so much that she invites you to sing backup vocals during her upcoming Daytona 500 performance. You go from singing in front of 50 people to over 250,000 people.

Seems like a fairytale, right? Well, that’s exactly what happened to this week’s guests on The Portfolio Life.

Listen in as Jill & Kate and I talk about their crazy story of accidentally playing at a biker bar, touring for 6 years with Kelly Clarkson, and the origin off their amazing duo.

Listen to the podcast

To listen to the show, click the player below (If you’re reading this via email, please click here).

Show highlights

In this episode, Jill & Kate and I discuss:

  • What it’s like to co-write music
  • Deconstructing what it means to make it as an artist
  • Which episode of Friends captures how they discovered they should be a duo
  • Why sharing the load of creativity is a blessing
  • How they piggybacked on Kelly’s tour to play for their own fans
  • Reaching a pivot point and how they decided to walk away
  • Navigating personal and professional turbulence the first year on their own
  • The value of persistence
  • How talented artists come and go and attitude alone


  • Have a good attitude. Be humble and willing to serve.
  • Put in the work so you’re ready when your big break comes.
  • Be prepared to lose things.
  • Surround yourself with good people.
  • If you have a good attitude and you’re a good hang, if you can be low maintenance and low drama, it will take you far.


If you suddenly got a big break, would you be ready? How are you preparing to get noticed? Share in the comments.

Click here to download a free PDF of the complete interview transcript or scroll down to read it below.


If you think that you’re out of opportunities, you’re never out of opportunities. It’s just, I think, you can get a little bit worn down. Because if you’re doing it right, I think there will be a lot of almost’s and maybe’s, and there will be a lot of rejections. —Kate


[0:00:27.0] JG: Welcome to the Portfolio Life. I’m Jeff Goins, and this is a show that helps you pursue work that matters, make a difference with your art, and discover your true voice. I’m your host, and I want to help you find, develop, and live out your own creative calling so that you, too, can live a Portfolio Life.

Let’s get started.


[0:00:45.2] JG: Alright, Jill, Kate. Say hello.

[0:00:49.3] Jill: Hello.

[0:00:50.2] Kate: Hello, how’s it going?

[0:00:51.3] JG: Yeah, good to have you guys on the show.

[0:00:52.7] Jill: Thanks.

[0:00:52.9] Kate: Thanks.

[0:00:53.7] JG: I don’t have an official welcome. I say that every time, and it’s a little embarrassing.

[0:00:58.3] Jill: I think that was perfect, I think it works.

[0:01:00.5] Kate: #officialwelcome.

[0:01:01.6] JG: Alright, good times. I just want you to tell your story. We met through a mutual friend, Whitney English, a while ago. We’re both Nashvillians. I feel like after you live here, because nobody’s from here, or not very many. People aren’t from here, they’re all transplants. I feel like after you live here like seven, eight, nine years, you get to call yourself a native.

[0:01:24.8] Jill: I think so, yeah. I think seven could be the magic number.

[0:01:27.5] Kate: I like that. Let’s all start spreading that and be like, “Oh, have you been here seven years? You’re a native, you didn’t know that?” Great. They do call it a 10-year town, but it could be some other number, I don’t know.

[0:01:40.0] JG: How did you guys start playing music together?

[0:01:42.6] Jill: Yeah, we met in college, a semester abroad program, which was not abroad. It was on Martha’s Vineyard, which we’re going to call abroad for right now.

[0:01:50.3] Kate: You have to take a ferry together.

[0:01:53.3] Jill: Yeah, it’s over the seas. I, Jill, went to Gordon College in Massachusetts, and Kate was going to Biola University in LA, and we both met at this semester abroad program for music. It was called Contemporary Music Center. You study song writing, production, music industry stuff. It’s not a classical school, more just like kind of contemporary.

[0:02:15.0] Kate: It’s like a little mock music industry for three and a half months.

[0:02:18.2] JG: Cool.

[0:02:18.1] Jill: Yeah, we were randomly put as roommates there and didn’t know each other. We were assigned a co-writing assignment, and so we worked together on that, and our voices just blended and our style blended, so we formed a duo after that. That’s sort of how we got started.

[0:02:39.8] JG: How do you know? I thought I was a musician until I moved to Nashville. I had played guitar for like, eight years, and I toured with a band for a whole year, and I thought I like knew stuff, and then I moved here and I had waiters who were just schooling me and I was like, “Okay, I’m a total beginner.”

I’ve never co-written. That’s definitely a thing, lots of people do that in Nashville. Musicians get together and co-write songs and they become mega hits or not. How do you know when something is like, “I found my soulmate. I found this person who compliments my voice or my style so well.”

How did you guys both know that? Because I think that’s interesting.

[0:03:23.1] Jill: Yeah, that is funny. I mean, part of it is just like, we sort of think it’s like a divine thing that happened. That’s part of our take, and then we’re big Friends fans, like the TV show.

[0:03:35.2] JG: Part — one part God, is that what you’re telling me, another part Ross and Rachel?

[0:03:39.6] Jill: Totally. More like Joey because when we tell this story that when Joey finds his identical hand man in Vegas, that’s how it was when we found our identical voice twin.

[0:03:51.9] Kate: I think it was just something too, like when we perform, we write this song, and it was the first song we’d ever written together. It was not that great, looking back. We’re like, “Wow, we’ve come a long way.” It was one of those things where when we performed it, people were kind of taken aback. They were kind of like, “Wait, you guys aren’t related? Why does it sound like your voices go together in that type of sibling harmony?”

It was easy enough, like it clicked enough that we were like, why not? At least for the semester, let’s keep working as a duo. Our professors were like, “Yeah, you guys don’t have to be solo artists. You can turn in,” we had to turn in like three masters and stuff like that. We just — every one of them was like a Jill and Kate product, instead of just a Jill Pickering

[0:04:33.1] Jill: I think, too, we were young enough to go, “Yeah, we could totally do this.” That helps a lot, you know?

[0:04:39.8] JG: There is a naiveté to it?

[0:04:40.6] Jill: Yeah, there is, for sure.

[0:04:41.3] Kate: Absolutely.

[0:04:43.6] JG: You guys are in a room, writing a song together, I don’t mean to like — I want to deconstruct this. You play the last C chord or something, and then like you look at each other and you go, “This feels good.” I mean, how did you acknowledge that this was — this worked?

[0:05:02.1] Kate: That’s a good question, I don’t think people have asked us in this detail. It’s kind of fun to think back. I don’t think we actually knew until people told us.

[0:05:10.6] Jill: Yeah, I think you’re right.

[0:05:13.0] Kate: Yeah, when we performed, like we thought like, “Hey, we wrote a cool catchy song. We got homework done,” but then when we performed it, I think people were so — wait a minute, you guys are on to something. At that time, you know, this was 13 years ago, there were a lot of trios, there were a lot of solo artists, but there weren’t a lot of duos.

There were a few, but not anything that was just like — you know, it’s all Beyoncé, or the Dixie Chicks, or like Britney Spears or Madonna. Solo artists, and we just were kind of like, “Yeah, a duo thing. That might be interesting. Why not? Yeah.”

[0:05:48.1] JG: That’s cool. You guys play this song, what was the song called?

[0:05:54.0] Jill: Stained.

[0:05:55.3] Kate: Stained, like, so dark of us.

[0:05:56.9] JG: Without the E?

[0:05:57.7] Jill: A pop acoustic duo. Not with a band thing, but like, you know, we were in our very dark days. I’m just kidding.

[0:06:06.8] JG: Lots of eye shadow or something?

[0:06:08.2] Kate: Yeah, we had another one right then called She Said.

[0:06:13.3] Jill: I think that was the big one that we wrote.

[0:06:15.8] Kate: Yeah, I think it was called Stained.

[0:06:16.9] JG: You wrote this song, it wasn’t that good, you obviously don’t play it anymore, apparently.

[0:06:22.5] Kate: Nope.

[0:06:25.1] JG: Burned that bridge.

[0:06:25.2] Jill: Most songs are not that good, which I think a songwriter should admit. I think you’re lucky if you get a good one out of 50 or a hundred, I think. That’s become normal for us. We’re used to writing really crappy songs, and every once in a while, you might get a decent one.

[0:06:39.9] JG: You wrote this crappy song, and you performed it as part of this assignment, and then people dug it and they came up to you and said this is like this is the next big thing? What did they say?

[0:06:55.9] Jill: I think they just said like things like, “We have never heard people harmonize like that, that are strangers,” basically. That was mostly what people pinpointed in us is our harmonies.

[0:07:08.0] Kate: I think there was that hey, there isn’t this happening a lot in the pop music world. The Indigo Girls, they were obviously like, laying the groundwork. Kind of a different genre than we — they’re way more folk than kind of we were going, but it just — it kind of seems like there is maybe an opportunity for a duo. I think that along with people going, “Wow, we’ve never heard that before.”

[0:07:36.1] Jill: I think it was appealing to work with someone else. I think creatively, if you find someone who you can work with, whatever that means, an editor or whatever it is, a producer. I think it’s easier or for me. I’m not — this is Jill, and I’m not super-driven in business, and like at all. Like an artist. I think to have someone to do it with was really appealing to me.

[0:08:05.5] Kate: To share the workload, to share — once we left, our professors were like, “Try and play 10 gigs this summer,” and we were like, “Okay.” I mean, we were so just green and just willing to do anything, playing anywhere, and so…

[0:08:22.9] Jill: When you have a few people, it’s easier to do something together, you know? It was a little less intimidating, because it felt like if we were going to fail, at least you were failing with another person in the boat with you than just like, all on your own, and yeah.

[0:08:37.5] JG: you guys play this song. People told you they never heard anything like that. I don’t know, if you had an opportunity like, you could be like the heavy metal version of Indigo Girls. I’m just going to proceed with this interview under the assumption that you guys were a Staind cover band.

[0:08:57.6] Kate: I like it.

[0:08:58.1] JG: It’s Been a While, like that was our big break is what I’m trying to say is. They played acoustic songs. Power chords, it’s all about the power chords.

[0:09:08.6] Jill: It is about the power chords.

[0:09:11.8] JG: The assignment, after that, you guys just kept writing songs together, because nobody said you had to do this solo thing, and then after that semester was over, was it an assignment or was it just a recommendation like go play 10 gigs?

[0:09:25.6] Kate: It definitely wasn’t an assignment. The semester is over, and so everyone goes back to their respective schools. We did a spring semester, so we had a summer in between. Our two professors at the time, Warren Pettit, Tom Willet, they were like, we just asked, “We really want to do this, what should we do next?”

There’s so many things that you could do, and we had a year left of college, and they were just like, “Play. Try and get experience under your belt. Do whatever you can to just be on the stage, whether you’re getting paid or not. Just get out there.” We were like, “Okay, let’s do it, let’s go.”

We played — that summer was hysterical, because we played like open mics where you get to play like two songs, and you’re there for like six hours sitting through everyone else’s set, and then one time it was actually our 10th show that we were really trying to play. We’re like, “Let’s do it,” we had to look up in the paper, because there was like not — I don’t know, gigs weren’t listed online.

We looked up in a paper and saw that there was an open mic at this place called Uncle Buck’s Rock and Roll Grill. It was somewhere outside Chicago. We went, there was like no windows on the place, it was actually a front door that was just placed at the entrance. We walk in, there’s all bikers in leather, like that’s it, and we were like, “Hi, two blond girls, we’re here for your open mic.”

They made us, when we got up to do our songs, they made us wear a hat that said “fresh meat,” because they had a butchery in the back and they said, “No, we make all of our first timers wear this trucker hat that says fresh meat on it.”

[0:11:12.4] JG: That’s hilarious.

[0:11:14.1] Kate: Anyway, we just played and tried to get as much experience under our belts.

[0:11:21.0] JG: Okay, you did this for how long before it became like, the professional thing? Are you guys still in college at this point?

[0:11:32.6] Jill: We had one more year to finish. We thought about — we got this tiny little bit of interest in us from a manager in Nashville, and we were like, we kind of got big heads about it, but we were like, “Maybe we could do it, maybe we could” — we were like, “Maybe we won’t go back to finish school,” because we had our senior year, and my dad was like, “No, that’s not an option,” which I’m super thankful for. My parents, thankfully, helped me pay for college, and they were like, “You’re going to finish.”

[0:12:03.1] Kate: It was good, because it kind of gave us one more year to be going to school which you know, we were kind of like, let’s just get this done, but also it let us continue writing. We were writing songs for our first record that we were going to record post school. It kind of was like a nice in between before launching full time into this is what we’re chasing after.

[0:12:23.9] Jill: Yeah. We finished senior year, Kate transferred to Gordon, and we played shows all through our senior year, and wrote all the time, and so I guess it was professional once we — I guess left college, and we worked in kitchens and nannied, and stuff like that.

[0:12:44.9] JG: Cool. Okay, then what happened after you graduated?

[0:12:49.5] Jill: We went back to the music program. They had a program called Artisan Residence for alumni. You could work in the kitchen, and live and do whatever you wanted, using all the facilities, so you had full access to their recording equipment, their studio, their rehearsal space. We went back and we recorded our album, our very first one called East Coast Bound, and we pretty much did that all of ourselves.

We would just hit the record button, we would track for each other one at a time, and brought players in there and did all of that, and so by the end of the semester, we worked in the kitchen, we were Sous chefs.

[0:13:27.1] Jill: Barely.

[0:13:27.5] Kate: Barely. Yeah, we did that, recorded our first album.

[0:13:31.2] Jill: Yeah, we toured a little bit like on our own and then we decided we would move to LA, which was kind of a ballsy decision of us. We just felt like that’s where we felt like we wanted to go.

We moved to LA with very little money, I don’t even know how much, and this was like a year I guess or so after we graduated from college. Maybe two. Yeah, moved to LA and didn’t have a place to live, didn’t have jobs.

[0:13:56.0] Kate: We did have a place to live, until it fell through. We drove from New Hampshire, from Jill’s house, to — we were driving to LA. Literally, all across the country, and in Chicago, we stopped, because that’s where my parents were living, and we got a call there that the apartment that we’re going to be renting or whatever, it fell through. We were like, “Great, we have one day before we arrive, or two days before we arrive in LA, and we don’t have anywhere to live.”

[0:14:18.5] JG: Wow.

[0:14:19.7] Jill: Yeah.

[0:14:20.8] JG: What did you do when you got to LA?

[0:14:24.0] Jill: We had an old friend, or not that old, but a friend that lived there, and she had a condo and had like an extra room. She was like, “You can rent out this extra room from me,” so we shared that room. I mean, we kind of had to take whatever we could get. We shared that room, and the bathroom. It was in west Hollywood. It was actually a nice little place. It was just a little cramped, but good. We started just booking shows and we started getting…

[0:14:49.2] Kate: Odd jobs?

[0:14:52.1] Jill: Yeah, odd jobs.

[0:14:55.1] JG: Did you start playing shows in LA? How did that go?

[0:14:59.0] Kate: We pitched our Staind cover band, and people really got on board.

[0:15:03.4] Jill: LA loves Stained.

[0:15:04.3] JG: Okay, alright, If somebody’s listening to this, they’re going to go, “Oh my gosh, this is for real. I’m going to go check them out.”

[0:15:11.4] Kate: We’re not a Staind cover band!

[0:15:14.6] Jill: We knew some people out there, and we did a lot of cold calling as well, and we finally booked a show for, I think it was in October, it might have been November. It was like two months into us living there, and this is like the part of the story that kind of gets crazy, and people are like, “What?” We did this little show at this place called Genghis Cohen, and…

[0:15:34.8] Kate: Which is half Chinese restaurant, half music venue. Like you literally like, walk in, it’s like fried rice to the left, live music to the right. It’s hysterical.

[0:15:42.3] JG: I wish we had one of those in Nashville.

[0:15:44.1] Jill: Yeah, they should. That was our first show in LA, and Kelly Clarkson ended up coming to that show with some of her friends. I mean, we had been affiliated, we heard our manager, our old manager had worked in her management firm, so we had met her in a meet and greet once, but we didn’t really know her.

She heard we were playing and came to the show. That was like kind of like, “Oh my gosh!” We kind of were freaking out. We actually did a cover of one of her songs in a medley, and we found out she was in the audience, and I was like, “We’re not doing her song tonight, if she’s here,” and Kate was like, “No, we’re absolutely doing it.” We had this huge fight backstage…

[0:16:28.5] Kate: It was not huge. It was not a fight.

[0:16:29.7] Jill: It was just a disagreement. I was like, “We’re not covering her song when she’s in the audience.” I was so embarrassed.

[0:16:35.3] Kate: My thing was like, I knew that that medley went over well with our audiences, and I was like, “No, we just need to stick to the plan, I don’t want to change it.”

[0:16:42.1] Jill: So Kate was right on that one, because we sang that, and like a week or two later, we saw her somewhere and she was like, “Hey, when you guys sang my song the other night, I was like, ‘Wow, they sound like kind of like my background vocals.’ Would you guys want to sing backgrounds for me on this show I have coming up?”

We were like, “Yeah!” Our dream was like, it would be awesome if maybe we could open for her one time or something like that. When she asked us to sing backup, we were like, it just came out of nowhere. We weren’t backup singers, you know?

[0:17:15.2] Kate: We never thought about singing backup. We never — most people I think had that kind of somewhere in their heads. We did not. It was like, “Yes, absolutely, we want to do that.” Pause. “Do we know how to do it?” It was like, “Yes, we’ll do it,” and then we left and we were like, “Do we know how? What does that look like? We’ll figure it out. Yes.”

[0:17:35.2] Jill: That was sort of, that was our first show we played in LA.

[0:17:39.0] JG: That was your first show?

[0:17:39.9] Jill: That was our first show.

[0:17:40.6] JG: Kelly Clarkson was there?

[0:17:41.7] Jill: Yes. You know, that sort of — yeah, what do you do with that? When people ask us, “So I want to be a backup singer,” and they’re like, “How would you recommend doing it?” I’m like, “I have no idea.”

[0:17:55.9] JG: Well it’s easy. You just play one show in LA and you’re set.

[0:17:58.2] Jill: Yeah, just move to LA and just play a show, and it’s like — it’s sometimes hard to tell kind of our story in that way, because it’s so that sort of dream thing. The one in a million chance. We recognize that and are super appreciative of that, not that — even that being said, though, we had put in time and work and all of that stuff. It was our first show in LA.

[0:18:25.2] Kate: I think it’s just, I mean, it is kind of, everyone gets into this business or gets their break or something in a very different way. There is no cookie cutter formula. For us, we had no idea it would be playing a show in LA, and then that we would be backup singers, and at that one show, it was for the Daytona 500, we went from playing in like coffee shops to like 30 to 50 people, maybe a hundred…

[0:18:50.1] Jill: If you were lucky.

[0:18:50.9] Kate: Yeah. I think the biggest crowd we’d ever played for was like a hundred people, to our first show with Kelly, there was 250,000 people.

[0:18:59.5] JG: This is at Daytona?

[0:19:00.4] Kate: Yeah, Daytona 500. That just — the whole, I mean, everything about it was just like eye opening, mind blowing, just what is happening. That one show turned into six years of touring with her. One show turned into a tour, and then another tour, and then another tour, and…

[0:19:21.3] JG: Let’s break that down. You guys play this show in LA, Kelly’s there, you play her song, you sing it better than she does.

[0:19:29.2] Jill: I don’t know about that.

[0:19:31.9] JG: Then what happens after that? They approach you and say, “Would you be interested in singing backup?” Help me understand how that exchange went?

[0:19:38.4] Kate: Yeah, we saw her after — on the actual night of the show, she was super complimentary, loved it, you know, that was it. We were just pumped that she came and that she liked it. Two weeks later, we were at a friend’s comedy show, or like a mutual friend’s comedy show that we didn’t even know she was going to be there, but she was, and then after the show — it’s funny, Jill and I weren’t standing together, which is odd, because we’re together a lot, but she found us each individually and just said, “Hey, I have this one show coming up,” I think this was in December of 2006, and it was — she was like, “I have this one off show coming up in February, would you be interested in singing backup?”

We were kind of like, I was by myself, and I was like, “Yeah, that would be awesome!” And apparently, Jill’s response was the same. It wasn’t like her people asked us, Kelly asked us, standing in I don’t know, it was like a bar, a restaurant connected to this comedy bar. After that, that was in December. In January, like we had three weeks of rehearsals, it was three songs.

[0:20:44.8] Jill: We got a call from her tour manager and her music director…

[0:20:46.8] Kate: They were like, “This is what we’re going to pay you, this is how rehearsals work. Do you guys have in ears? This is giving all of your travel information, this is when we’re flying, this is the schedule once we get to Florida,” all that stuff, and we’re just kind of like wow.

I, at the time, was a personal assistant to a man in LA, and I was already planning in December, I was planning on quitting my job January first anyway, because this gentleman was not very nice to me and would yell at me all the time. I was like, “That’s great, I’ll just quit, do this Kelly gig, and then get a new job afterwards.”

Did you quit your job? What was your?

[0:21:29.3] Jill: I did, yeah. I got someone to replace me for the time being, which he ended up a permanent replacement. We didn’t know if it was going to be — it was sort of like an audition in a way I think. That first show.

[0:21:42.9] Kate: Her musical director is like pretty much in charge of the band, and he normally does like auditions and stuff. I think it was a little… he was a little taken aback when she just hired us. He’s kind of like, “Who are these girls?” I think those three weeks of rehearsals before the Daytona 500 were our kind of permanent audition, and it was terrifying. I look back at those three weeks and man, we worked so hard because it was just — I mean, we’re learning all these new songs, we’re learning what it’s like to be a backup singer, and just how much work goes into it and yeah, it was crazy.

[0:22:20.1] JG: Wow. You see her in the show, she asked you to come tour with her, well, just do this one show, which happened to be Daytona, and then afterwards, they just want to continue doing that. How many shows in between that LA, the first show in LA and Daytona did you play?

[0:22:40.3] Jill: I think we had one or two more.

[0:22:42.5] JG: Not many?

[0:22:42.9] Jill: No.

[0:22:44.1] Kate: I mean, also because we didn’t have time. Beginning of December or something first couple of weeks of December is when she asked and rehearsal started, I want to say the first week of January, second week of January maybe, and then it was three weeks of rehearsals, and then Daytona 500 is like early February?

[0:23:00.5] Jill: I remember having at least one other show in LA, but I think probably too, before Christmas.

[0:23:06.3] JG: How long had you been playing together at this point as a duo?

[0:23:11.1] Jill: Three…

[0:23:11.1] Kate: Four years, almost four. Yeah.

[0:23:13.5] JG: Were you guys freaking out?

[0:23:16.7] Jill: Yeah.

[0:23:16.6] Kate: Yeah.

[0:23:19.8] Jill: We had no chill.

[0:23:22.3] JG: You’re like, “I got this. 250,000 people. I kind of assumed I’d be playing Daytona anyway, so happy to do it for you, Kelly.”

[0:23:28.9] Kate: Right.

[0:23:30.1] Jill: Yeah. We were thrown into it for sure.

[0:23:31.5] Kate: The best — a funny story about that is that most events like that that are on such a big scale, that are filmed, that have to be exactly clocked correctly, there’s all sorts of different moving parts, because we were performing out on the track area, and so it was like they had to bring audience members in.

There were people packed around the stage, but get them out really fast before the race started. On most of these types of events, as we’ve since learned, they do a pretty detailed dress rehearsal run through the day before. Well, Kelly hadn’t flown in yet, and they were like, “Okay, we need somebody to do a stand in. We need somebody to be Kelly’s stand in.”

They were like, “Jill, you, come on.” Again, we were so new to all of this. They bring in like fans and we do the whole thing, and Kelly was coming up in like a truss elevator type thing, her little box was like rising. The whole production starts, and the fans were like screaming. They’re so excited, and like, up pops Jill, and she’s having to sing like all of Kelly’s parts, and she nailed it. Then people were like, chanting “Jill” at the end. It was hysterical.

[0:24:45.7] Jill: I don’t remember that, but — I remember that happening, but the chanting I don’t remember.

[0:24:49.4] Kate: People were so…

[0:24:52.4] Jill: I was reluctant.

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[0:24:54.1] JG: You two are with Kelly for six years, and was it like — you finished the first tour and they said, “Do you want to do another tour?” What was that like?

[0:25:02.8] Jill: I can’t remember if it was just assumed at that point, I don’t remember.

[0:25:06.1] Kate: Well, I feel like it’s never… I remember that was always a little nervous, because there was never any guarantee that you would automatically be called for the next tour. So I think there was a little bit of trepidation of like, “I hope I get asked for the next tour,” but it would work in record cycles. So our first album that we toured with her was her My December record, and we started with promo, and it’s flying back and forth between New York, LA, doing all of the talk shows, morning shows, and the UK and Australia, actually. We did all of those, and then you do a tour for the record, and if the record is successful, sometimes there will be a couple of tours. So it’s generally through each record cycle.

[0:25:51.9] Jill: Yeah, and the good thing is we always knew. We were never really even — and I don’t want to say this, but we didn’t want to be backup singers, in that we weren’t pursuing that. So we were at this time still pursuing our own music, recording albums, putting up videos, like the whole entire time, and Kelly knew that, too. That was our main goal the whole time. So while we were busy with her, we still were building this other thing that we had started before that.

[0:26:22.0] JG: And did working with her bring visibility to the brand of Jill and Kate?

[0:26:27.8] Kate: Yeah, it definitely did.

[0:26:28.7] Jill: Yeah.

[0:26:29.5] JG: Because I mean, you’re a backup singer, and so I could see how that might not happen.

[0:26:32.9] Jill: Yeah, I don’t think in some camps it might happen, and in some it might not. Kelly, her fans are really loyal, and she spoke highly of us on her social media, in her interviews or whatever, and so that was really helpful. If she likes I don’t know…

[0:26:51.2] Kate: Chocolate ice cream.

[0:26:52.3] Jill: Chocolate ice cream, her fans like chocolate ice cream. So having her support definitely gave us some visibility there.

[0:26:59.6] Kate: And we would book shows, like if her schedule, if her touring schedule is show day, off day, show day, off day, if we were in cities that we knew we had fans, we would try and book a show on the evening of our off day. So we would a lot of times do New York, Boston, Chicago, LA, Nashville, that type of thing, and it was great. She was supportive, our show in Chicago, she sold merch for us.

[0:27:25.1] JG: Wow, that’s cool.

[0:27:27.0] Kate: It was our most successful merch night ever, because everybody’s like, “Heck yeah, I will buy your t-shirt! I don’t even care who you are, but Kelly is going to sell it to me, yep!” So yeah, it was definitely — I don’t think that’s the norm in every camp. Some don’t allow their band members to pursue their own thing. So Kelly was never like them.

[0:27:45.9] JG: So you were playing some shows while you were touring with her when you had off days.

[0:27:51.8] Kate: Yeah.

[0:27:51.8] JG: Yeah, okay cool. How much?

[0:27:55.1] Jill: It depended. I mean, we would do the major cities mostly. So if she’s on a 30-day tour, we might do five of our own shows on that tour kind of a thing. Maybe more, but we also did Stageit shows, which is like an online concert platform, so we would do shows.

[0:28:11.8] Kate: It didn’t really make sense for us to play, if we were in Pocatello, Idaho, to be like, “Hey…” especially at that point, social media was just getting started. We were just starting to blog. I think we did our first blog in 2008, at the end or something. I feel like all of that was slowly building.

[0:28:33.1] Jill: And it was really exhausting to sing her set every night and have another show. So we worked it in, and we did recording, a couple of the guys in the band produced some stuff for us. When we were off the road, we’d work on albums and stuff.

[0:28:47.9] JG: Somebody from Pocatello right now is a little bit miffed.

[0:28:50.6] Jill: They’re super miffed.

[0:28:51.8] Kate: Pocatello, Idaho is my go to city. When I name cities, it’s always Pocatello, Idaho. I thought I made it up, but it’s not. It’s a real place.

[0:28:59.7] JG: Yeah. So you don’t tour with Kelly anymore, you’re doing your own thing, you were doing it for a while. Tell me about how that ended, and how you transitioned into this third phase of your career.

[0:29:14.8] Jill: Yeah, the last year that we toured with her, we were gone like 300 days out of the year. It was just an insane tour schedule, and I mean super fun, but just we were never home. We were working on recording our own first album that we really felt that it was a product of us living in Nashville, learning and absorbing everything that we had here.

Anyway, it was our first album that we really were pouring into, and we were having to record in 24-hour spans when we were home. Just getting home, dropping off our stuff, going into the studio anytime we could, and we just realized, if we were really going to try and do anything with our own music, we couldn’t keep being out on the road and being gone so much.

Also, for the last two and a half years that we sang with her, I, Kate was her personal assistant, started doing assisting stuff for Kelly. So on top of just singing her show, doing our Jill and Kate stuff, I was also her personal assistant, which just meant another realm of being available 24/7, having to do extra flights and stuff with her.

Even when we weren’t touring, I would have to travel with her if she had any meetings or anything like that, and again, it was all so fun. We just realized that we can’t keep up with this anymore.

[0:30:37.8] Jill: And after it was eight or nine years of us doing Jill and Kate stuff, and we’re like if we keep doing this Kelly stuff full time, we don’t do Jill and Kate stuff full-time. The reality of it was it was getting about 20% of our time, I would say.

[0:30:54.0] Kate: Yeah.

[0:30:55.0] JG: So when was that?

[0:30:56.0] Kate: That was — 2012 was our last show with her. The end of 2012.

[0:31:00.0] JG: And then what happened after that?

[0:31:02.1] Kate: Well, we had a lot that happened after that. We had a manager in place that was a friend of ours, Will Grey, and he was going to take us that first year and try to get us a bigger manager, and some bigger deals and stuff like that, and 10 days after our last show with Kelly, he was diagnosed with cancer at 33. He passed away eight or nine months later in July. So that first year, personally and professionally, was a huge like, “Whoa, what is happening in life?”

We had this new album that came out in September, and then we finished with Kelly in October, and we were pushing this whole thing, and it went to a full stop to help take care of Will and be in LA with him, and also professionally, he obviously couldn’t keep managing us, really. So we were just floating like, “What are we doing right now?” It was a hard realization for us, because he had known us since the day that we met each other.

That Alumni and Residence program that we went back and did, he was that when we were students. So he has known us since the beginning, and he actually helped coordinate in some form or fashion every single album that we had released, and so he was our everything. Our go to. He was just brilliant, and so when he got sick and couldn’t do anything anymore, we obviously didn’t want him to, but on a professional sense, we were like, “We don’t know how to do anything.” We knew how to do some stuff, but really, we were like, “We don’t really know how to do a whole lot of anything.”

[0:32:39.6] Jill: Yeah, so we were losing our friend in a personal way, and then our career was spinning, because we haven’t adjusted to what that looked like. The first year was tumultuous, I would say, and just getting our feet on the ground and going, “Okay, what are we doing again as Jill and Kate?”

[0:33:01.7] Kate: It was a whole lot of trying stuff, stuff that we had never had the time to do before. We went to the UK and played, we went twice and played shows and did a little tour over there, and that’s something that we had been wanting to do for years, because we toured over there so much with Kelly that we had a pretty loyal fan base over there. So we got to tour the UK, we did a house show tour. We did several of them here in the US, where fans would throw a show in their backyard or in their living room, and we would show up and play for an hour in their living room.

Just stuff that we’d never really had the time to do. We just tried everything to see what was going to stick, to see what worked, to see what we liked, what we didn’t like. It was just a whole new arena for us.

[0:33:49.4] JG: Wow, so tell me about how things are going now. What’s the past season been like? What are you excited about? What are you struggling with? That sort of thing.

[0:34:01.4] Jill: Yeah, right now it’s up and down, I guess, for us. We have a really supportive fan base. It’s small, but it’s really loyal. I don’t know, it’s such a weird time for us. We’ve done some other backup singing that came at us just to pay bills, and we were trying to tour, but it’s hard to tour. It’s a different industry. Money is the thorn in our side a lot of times, because we could do a really great tour in the UK, but it costs so much to get over there, we can’t make it financially. We can’t make it a success.

So I don’t know, right now it’s an interesting time. We’re trying to figure out what being an independent artist, 13 years in, with this totally new layout of what being that means. I don’t know, we’re trying to figure out what that looks like every day. Sometimes it’s great, and sometimes it’s really crappy.

[0:35:02.0] Kate: Yeah, and I think that there’s not a whole lot of consistency to it. We’re constantly trying to not reinvent, but just trying to come up with things that are going to work, that are going make money and not kill our souls. That are going to let people connect with our music, and us still get paid for it. With streaming services and stuff like that, it’s hard to make a sale, a transaction based off of something that somebody could get for free.

[0:35:29.6] Jill: Yeah, I hate hearing myself say that money is the reason we aren’t doing stuff, but it’s the reality of it.

[0:35:35.6] Kate: And it’s the business side of the brand Jill and Kate, and I think it’s hard, because I think something that I’ve been thinking about a lot is the almost’s and the maybe’s. I feel like there are so many opportunities. If you think that you are out of opportunities, you’re never out of opportunities. I think you can get a little bit worn down, because if you are doing it right, I think there will be a lot of almost and maybes, and there will be a lot of rejections.

We just heard Hoda Kotb speak, she’s the Today Show fourth hour news anchor, and she was talking about how she got rejected 27 times in the span of 10 days, just driving around from news station to news station, and they would watch part of her tape and just be like, “You’re not good enough. Go try somewhere else.” She was like, “I was used to hearing that. I just kept trying,” and on like a last-ditch effort somewhere in Mississippi, some guy watched her whole 30 minute tape and said, “I like what I see,” and she got the job.

[0:36:38.2] Jill: I think it’s that persistence, that’s where we are right now in our career. The persistence. Some days we have it and some days we don’t, to be honest.

[0:36:48.8] Kate: I think it’s hard, because we feel like we have the material. We feel like we have everything in our arsenal and our tool box that we’ve been collecting. We’ve collected tools from watching how Kelly runs her camp, all the things we’ve learned over the past 13 years, and we feel like we’re ready for some next step or a different platform, but it’s a lot of almosts and maybes until the right one hits. I don’t know if we’ve hit our next right one yet, but it’s knocking on a lot of doors.

[0:37:22.8] Jill: Yeah.

[0:37:23.7] JG: So let’s deconstruct what it means to make it as a musician. You guys are being very humble. The reality is you’re making it, and maybe that will be a different story next week. That’s the nature of the business that you’re in, and we all get that, but you have made it for 13 years. You’ve done the thing that is a dream or a side gig for so many people, and you’ve done it. So yeah, and I get that.

We all want to get to the next level, and that’s cool, but I think there’s lots of people listening who are going, “But how do I get there?” So I’d love to wrap up with a few practical things. I want to begin with a question of your break, like getting the big break. You’ve been very transparent, and, “Look, we didn’t know Kelly was going to be there. We didn’t orchestrate this, and we don’t know how you do that.” How important is a break like that, and you guys had been playing music for three or four years before that, so it was lucky, but what kind of work goes into that sort of thing, whether it’s before or after?

I mean, there was something that Kelly saw and heard at that show that you played in LA, and at Daytona that led to the six years of working together. So obviously, luck was a part of it, but the other part was you guys were apparently good enough and filled the need that she had. What’s your advice for somebody that’s, “Yeah, I’m just looking for my break”?

[0:38:58.6] Kate: Gosh, I think a couple of things. I think one, yes, finding someone who will champion you is super important. Somebody who recognizes your talent and your gifts. I think that that is super important. I think whether it’s somebody, it can be a spectrum from a friend who’s just super encouraging, that sees something in you that pushes you to go forward, or on the other side of the spectrum, a celebrity or somebody with a ton of influence that can be like, “Hey, I believe in you. I see something in you. I want to bring you along,” or like, “I’m going to connect you with these five people, because I see it for you.”

I think that that is so huge. Finding someone, or ideally, like a team of people, but someone to champion you or your talent, or whatever it is that you’re pursuing. I think that is important. But secondly, we would say this all the time, there are more talented singers out there. By all means, it’s not like we’re the only ones, and actually, Kelly said this a lot of times. Not in a threatening way to her band, but she would say it about herself, too, like, “We’re all replaceable.”

There are a million people who can play the bass, or the guitar, or even sing, and she would always say it like, “We’re all here for a reason.” In one sense, I think we always say if you have a good attitude and if you’re a good hang, and I think that’s such a Nashville thing to say, but if you can be low maintenance, low drama, it will take you a lot further. Like, somebody with a good attitude, I mean we’ve seen people go and come based on attitude alone.

They’re insanely talented and you’re like, “How could you turn that person away?” or “How could you send that person home based on their talent?” But the reality is, at least for touring musicians, you’re on stage for 60, 90 minutes maybe. You’ve got 23 and a half hours left of the day that you’re going to be hanging in close proximity.

Do you want the person around that’s going to be complaining that everything isn’t right? I just feel like having a good attitude, and that’s so basic, but I think having a good attitude, being humble, being willing to serve.

[0:41:18.3] Jill: And putting in your work, whatever that is, before so that you’re ready when that time comes. I think yeah, it was our first show in LA that she came, but we sang in harmony a hundred percent of the time getting ready for whatever it was.

[0:41:35.0] Kate: Yeah, anytime we were in the car we were singing in harmony. We were annoying.

[0:41:40.2] Jill: Just working on your craft. That seems so elementary, but it’s so true.

[0:41:44.8] Kate: Yeah.

[0:41:45.8] JG: Yeah, that’s something that strikes me, is you guys forged a connection and were working really hard so that when the big break came, you didn’t fall on your face.

[0:41:57.5] Kate: Yeah.

[0:41:57.7] Jill: Yeah, I think it’s just readiness, for sure.
[0:42:00.2] JG: I mean, you performed in front of 250,000 people, that’s crazy. You had that, and you’re admitting that you were as freaked out as I would be, but I assume that if, you know, that happened the day after you guys left that study abroad experience at Martha’s Vineyard, it might not have gone so well.

[0:42:21.2] Kate: Yeah, absolutely.

[0:42:23.0] JG: That’s cool. Parting advice or lessons learned from the past 13 years of playing music professionally?

[0:42:31.8] Kate: Oh, surround yourself with good people.

[0:42:34.8] JG: Be a good hang.

[0:42:35.6] Kate: Yeah, be a good hang.

[0:42:37.6] Jill: Be prepared to lose things. Someone told us this once. Like your favorite sweater when you’re on tour.

[0:42:43.8] JG: Oh, I thought you meant like, soul things, but you’re talking about actual things.

[0:42:47.9] Jill: Oh I’m talking about a wide range, so there’s like that, or there’s friendships you lose when you’re on the road, or like money, or time, or whatever.

[0:42:57.0] Kate: Or a little bit of sanity sometimes.

[0:42:58.4] Jill: Yeah be prepared to lose things, and I don’t mean that to be whomp-whomp, but it’s the reality. It’s a sacrifice, and it’s not the easy choice. It’s not the guaranteed choice like, “Well if I do this, this would happen.” No, you could end up losing it all, but if you really care about it, you’d do it anyway.

[0:43:19.0] Kate: And don’t be afraid to fail or lose.

[0:43:22.0] Jill: Or suck.

[0:43:22.8] Kate: Yeah, don’t be afraid to suck, because you will. There are people than are more talented, there are people that are prettier, thinner, younger, all of those things, but if you can just be sure of yourself and what you bring to the table, and a lot of times, it doesn’t make sense. If I were Hoda, 27 times, you might be thinking like, “Maybe I’m not that good,” but she just knew that this is what she was going to do, and she did it.

[0:43:51.5] Jill: It could be a little crazy. If you’re a little crazy, you’re good.

[0:43:54.0] Kate: Yeah.

[0:43:56.7] JG: Yeah, well I take issue with the idea that somebody is skinnier or prettier than me. That’s probably true…

[0:44:04.6] Kate: Yeah, we weren’t really talking about you.

[0:44:06.0] JG: Other people, other people. Good to know. Guys thanks so much, this was great. Thanks for sharing your story.

[0:44:11.6] Kate: Yeah, thanks Jeff.

[0:44:12.2] Jill: Thanks for taking the time.


[0:44:19.6] JG: Hey guys, thanks for listening to the Portfolio Life. You can find the show notes for this episode and others at goinswriter.com. If you enjoyed the show, you can leave a review at iTunes so more people can find it, and my ego doesn’t die a slow tragic death. I appreciate the time you take to listen to the show. I’d love to connect with you on Twitter. You can find me @jeffgoins. You can also email me at jeff@goinswriter.com with tips, ideas, feedback, compliments on my hair.

Anyway, thanks for listening. I look forward to talking to you in the next episode. Now go build your portfolio.

As songwriters should admit, I think you’re lucky if you get a good one out of 50 or 100. —Jill

Click here to download a free PDF of the complete interview transcript.

Andrew Raynor

New online course: Technical SEO 1

Andrew Raynor



Today we’re launching our first technical SEO training. This training will help EVERYONE to understand those difficult technical SEO issues. We’ll teach you exactly how to analyze (and solve) the most common technical SEO issues. Technical SEO can be quite daunting, but with this training, you’ll be able to fully grasp al those complicated technical SEO issues.

The technical SEO 1 course is available for only $179 up until the end of Februari. After that, the course will be $199.


In this technical SEO training, the focus will be on crawlability. Crawlability is the most important technical SEO aspect. It has to do with al the things that can prevent Google from crawling and indexing your website. Very important stuff. If Google isn’t able to crawl and index your website properly, ranking in the search engines is never going to happen. In this technical SEO course, we’ll cover al the common issues  which prevent Google from crawling your website properly.robots.txt, crawl budget, canonical link elements…

This course will cover a broad variety of topics, all having to do with crawlability. After an introduction about SEO and crawlability, we’ll teach you about HTTP headers and HTTP status codes. After that, we’ll cover robots meta tags, the canonical link element and robots.txt. Subsequently, we’ll teach you how HTML, JavaScript and CSS can influence crawlability, and we’ll go into sitewide SEO. Finally, we’ll offer you a lesson in site speed.

This technical SEO course covers all kind of subjects we blog about as well. However, this course will give more insights and explains all these subjects in much more detail.

Technical SEO 1 contains…

The technical SEO 1 training consists of 11 lessons divided over 6 modules. Every lesson starts with a training video in which Joost and Marieke explain the material. After that, we invite you to read some additional texts. In most lessons, a screencast is added in which we show you how to use different tools (Yoast SEO, Quix, Google Search Console). At the end of every lesson, you’ll have to answer some challenging questions. These questions will check whether or not you understood the material. At the end of the course, you’ll receive a certificate and a badge to put on your website.

Technical SEO 1: The first of many?

We’re planning on releasing more technical SEO courses after this first one.  There are a lot of other important technical SEO issues that we could cover. We’re  for instance thinking about a course on hreflang or about schema.org. What are your thoughts about a second technical SEO course? Which subjects would you like to learn about?

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SEO basics: What is crawlability?

Andrew Raynor



Ranking in the search engines requires a website with flawless technical SEO. Luckily, the Yoast SEO plugin takes care (of almost) everything on your WordPress site. Still, if you really want to get most out of your website and keep on outranking the competition, some basic knowledge of technical SEO is a must. In this post, I’ll explain one of the most important concepts of technical SEO: crawlability.

What is the crawler again?

A search engine like Google consists of a crawler, an index and an algorithm. The crawler follows the links. When Google’s crawler finds your website, it’ll read it and its content is saved in the index.

A crawler follows the links on the web. A crawler is also called a robot, a bot, or a spider. It goes around the internet 24/7. Once it comes to a website, it saves the HTML version of a page in a gigantic database, called the index. This index is updated every time the crawler comes around your website and finds a new or revised version of it. Depending on how important Google deems your site and the amount of changes you make on your website, the crawler comes around more or less often.

Read more: ‘SEO basics: what does Google do’ »

And what is crawlability?

Crawlability has to do with the possibilities Google has to crawl your website. Crawlers can be blocked from your site. There are a few ways to block a crawler from your website. If your website or a page on your website is blocked, you’re saying to Google’s crawler: “do not come here”. Your site or the respective page won’t turn up in the search results in most of these cases.
There are a few things that could prevent Google from crawling (or indexing) your website:

  • If your robots.txt file blocks the crawler, Google will not come to your website or specific web page.
  • Before crawling your website, the crawler will take a look at the HTTP header of your page. This HTTP header contains a status code. If this status code says that a page doesn’t exist, Google won’t crawl your website. In the module about HTTP headers of our (soon to be launched!) Technical SEO training we’ll tell you all about that.
  • If the robots meta tag on a specific page blocks the search engine from indexing that page, Google will crawl that page, but won’t add it to its index.

This flow chart might help you understand the process bots follow when attempting to index a page:

Want to learn all about crawlability?

Although crawlability is just the very basics of technical SEO (it has to do with all the things that enable Google to index your site), for most people it’s already pretty advanced stuff. Nevertheless, if you’re blocking – perhaps even without knowing! – crawlers from your site, you’ll never rank high in Google. So, if you’re serious about SEO, this should matter to you.

If you really want to understand all the technical aspects concerning crawlability, you should definitely check out our Technical SEO 1 training, which will be released this week. In this SEO course, we’ll teach you how to detect technical SEO issues and how to solve them (with our Yoast SEO plugin).

Keep reading: ‘How to get Google to crawl your site faster’ »

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You Aren’t Born an Artist, You Become One

Andrew Raynor

Recently, I finished up a new book on what it takes to be a creative professional. The book comes out in June, but over the next few months, I’ll share some lessons. Here’s the first one.

There’s an old quote attributed to Picasso that says we are all born artists but the trick is to remain one. I think that’s just not true. We aren’t born an artist. We must become one.

How Anyone Can Become an Artist (The Rule of Re-creation)

Of course, are all creative. Some of us write poems and others imagine a better future for our children, but we all have it in us to make things, to turn nothing into something, and bring a new creation into the world.

This is the magic of being human.

In the Bible, God creates the earth and all that’s in it, but he gives Adam and Eve the responsibility of naming the animals. My interpretation of that moment is he’s saying, “Join me in this.” He’s calling us to be creative.

We all have a call to creative, so that makes us artists in a sense. But what does it take to become a professional artist, and not just a hobbyist? It takes a lot more than just being born, it turns out.

Here are three steps to take if you’re considering a career in the arts.

Step #1: Lean in to your fear

We all know people who discovered their creative potential later on in life. The world may have beaten it out of them, or maybe it never existed at all. Then, they experienced a creative awakening.

When Brianna Lamberson decided at the Tribe Conference she wanted to write a book, she was doing something bold. She was deciding to become someone she wasn’t. And this scared her. But she decided to lean in and do it, anyway.

After 30 days, she had a 30,000-word manuscript for a book and launched it, making $800 in the first week. How did she do it? She imagined herself feeling unafraid and did the very thing that terrified her the most.

And it worked.

This happens to some artists late in life, and for some much earlier. But for every creative genius, it must happen. And by that, I mean, you must make a choice. You must become more uncomfortable with standing still than with taking risks.

No, I don’t believe you are born an artist, but I do believe you can become one.

Step #2: Take baby steps (and become what you practice)

So, let’s say you decide to be a painter or a novelist or even an entrepreneur. Let’s say you hear this prompting and decide to act. What happens next? Next, you practice.

When a young lawyer and new father named John Grisham thought he might have it in him to write thrillers, he got up a little early every morning and went to his office.

There, he would write for the first hour or so of the day. The goal was a few pages of his novel. He never studied writing and wasn’t sure he necessarily wanted to be a writer. He just knew that you don’t become something by waiting or wishing for it. You become something by doing it.

And that meant if he wanted to be a writer, he was going to have to write.

He didn’t write a lot. Most days, it was just a few hundred words. It took him three years to write that first book. And when it was done, he couldn’t get any major publisher to look at it. No one was calling him congratulating him on the new book.

So, he wrote another.

While he was writing the second book, he bought a bunch of copies of his first book and decided to promote it himself since the small publisher had done little to support him. And then, the second book was sold to a major publisher and became a movie, and then, he started calling himself a writer.

Re-imagining who you want to be is an important step to re-creating your destiny. I have encouraged thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people, to call themselves writers if they want to write. But it doesn’t stop there. You can’t just call yourself a writer. You also have to act like one.

And that’s true for all artists.

John Grisham is a bestselling novelist today because he had the discipline in one of the busiest seasons of life to chase something he wasn’t even sure would make for a career. But he was curious enough to see, and that meant he had to practice.

Imagine how that must have felt, three years into a project before completing it, all while practicing law and raising small children. Imagine how discouraging that could have felt and how he must have been tempted to quit. And then imagine publishing that work and seeing little success.

And then, imagine starting the next one with, perhaps, no expectation of anything changing. All because you were curious.

This is what it takes to be an artist. Not to be born with any special abilities, but to imagine a new, creative life for yourself and then to create that life. Not with big and giant leaps of faith towards the unknown, but with small and persistent steps toward an unknown destiny.

I know many creatively successful people, and almost all of them began this way. Not with a big break or a sudden realization but by gradually believing in another life and acting their way into it. For many of them, it took years, sometimes over a decade. And if it happened sooner, they often didn’t know what to do with their newfound fame and success.

Step #3: Leave the familiar

Adrian Cardenas was a professional baseball player who after his first year in the major leagues quit the game to become a filmmaker.

After his first year of playing for the Chicago Cubs, Adrian realized that his past decade of practicing the sport was, in fact, not leading to this life. Playing for 40,000 people, mastering the craft of baseball. It wasn’t for him. And it took a moment like that to realize it.

So what did he do? He quit. He started over. He did the scary thing that so many of us struggle to do, even when we feel this call within us: he reinvented himself.

I call this the Rule of Re-creation, and it is an essential principle to living a more creative life. When the world calls you one thing, you must break out and become who you really are. Before you get to create great art, you must first re-create yourself.

Years ago, I quit my old blog and decided to start a new one. I stopped calling myself a “marketer” and began calling myself a writer, even though I had no book or any significant work behind me at this point. I chose to believe I could be something different from what I’d always been.

I re-created myself.

I suppose you could look into the past and see me winning a sixth grade spelling bee or helping my peers in college with their term papers, you might be able to deduce that I had always been a writer. But if you were to ask me at twenty-seven years old if I was a writer, I would have said, “No.”

Becoming a writer for me was a choice. And this is true for anyone who wants to do anything creative in their life, like write a book or paint a masterpiece or even launch a business. This kind of act doesn’t happen to you. You chose it.

Sure, you may feel called to this work. It may come to you in certain quiet and vulnerable moments when you’re wondering what your life is about. You may feel drawn to it as something certain and at once inexplicable. But the fact remains: you don’t become an artist until you decide to be one. If the calling comes, you still must answer.

Why am I telling you this?

I’m sharing this, because I believe you have important work that deserves to be shared. And I also believe this world does a poor job of encouraging us to be creative. Our places of work often aren’t great places for this work to be shared, and sadly our homes where we were raised weren’t, either.

So, if you want to be an artist (whatever that means to you), it will require some boldness, a certain tenacity. And the journey won’t be easy. But I hope you’ll take it anyway, because we need your work, and we need you to share this work that only you can share.

Here’s what it takes in practical terms:

  1. Not everyone is born an artist. But we all have the power to become artists. To start, we must believe this.
  2. We must take tiny, daily steps in the direction of our creative calling. We must practice and be prepared for rejection, failure, and the tedium of life.
  3. We must re-create ourselves by leaving the familiar and reimagining a new future for ourselves. This may require us to quit one thing and transition into something else. Maybe the thing we quit is a mind-set, or maybe it’s a job. But we will have to leave one thing to go in search of something new.

If we do these things and don’t quit, then we just might become what we dream of becoming. And if we do these things in hopes of one day being an artist, we are in luck. Because these are not the things you do to become an artist. These are the things that artists do.

If you are believing in a different future for yourself, constantly reinventing who you are and what you do, taking small but intentional steps towards becoming that thing, then you are not an amateur or a hobbyist. You, dear reader, are an artist.

So, get creating.

One great way to start sharing your work with the world is through a blog. Tune in for one of my free webinars this week on how to launch a blog and get your first 1000 subscribers!

Click below to register for the date and time that works best for you.

What kind of artist are you? What do you need practice daily in order to act like an artist? Share in the comments.

Andrew Raynor

An ideal WordPress SEO permalink design

Andrew Raynor



In the past we received a lot questions regarding optimizing your WordPress SEO URL / permalink structure. Questions ranging from whether you should have the category in your permalink structure to the length of your slugs. In this post, we’ll address some of these questions and attempt to give you a better understanding of your permalink structure.

The ideal WordPress SEO URL structure

At Yoast, we recommend using a simple and clear permalink structure. Ending your URL with the post name is the preferred method and optionally you can prefix the post name with the category, which results in one of the two following permalink structures:


And with the category prefixed:


For an added bonus, we recommend adding your main keyword somewhere in the post’s name. When checking out the snippet preview in our plugin, you’ll see your keyword emphasized in the URL if it’s been detected in your slug (see image below).

What about using dates?

Using dates in your URL never had many benefits. When you add dates to your permalink structure, you automatically ‘date’ your posts. People will naturally look for posts with a more recent date, assuming that they contain the best information. However, sometimes older post can hold very valuable information, but won’t get the same amount of clicks due to their age.

Should I use the category in my permalink structure?

If your domain name is nice and short and you use short, yet descriptive category names, you can easily include a category in your permalink structure which can benefit your website, but beware: if you end up with a lengthy slug and category name, it will make sharing the URL more difficult and won’t have much added value in Google.

If you decide to use categories in your permalink structure, make sure that you only select one category per post. For some more information regarding using categories in your permalink structure, I advise you to watch the following video by Matt Cutts.

Should I add .html to my permalink structure?

In terms of SEO and ranking, there is little benefit to keeping the .html extension present in your URLs. However, in the video below, Matt explains that there might be some other advantages to keeping the file extensions present in your permalink structure.

The discussion whether or not you should forcibly add .html (or any other extension) can be ended very quickly: Don’t do it. It won’t help you and if you add certain extensions such as .exe, it can actually hurt your rankings.

My blog is in Google News. Don’t I need numbers in the URL?

The short answer here is: no. Back in the day, Google News required you to use a three digit number in your URLs in order to be included in the News index. A way around this was to have a separate XML sitemap. However, since September 2015, both the three digit unique number and XML sitemap are no longer required.

Should my focus keyword always be the first keyword in the URL?

It might help slightly, but if your focus keyword is present in the first few words, you’ll be fine. Matt explains this at great length in the following video.

How many words should I use in my slug?

In this interview with Matt Cutts, Matt mentions the following regarding the length of your slug:

If you can make your title four- or five-words long – and it is pretty natural. If you have got a three, four or five words in your URL, that can be perfectly normal. As it gets a little longer, then it starts to look a little worse. Now, our algorithms typically will just weight those words less and just not give you as much credit.

Should you change your URL structure for better SEO?

You might expect that the answer to this question would be a simple yes. However, if you’ve been blogging for a while, you might not want to make any drastic decisions. Have you been using dates in your permalink structure for the past few years? Then it might be wise to not switch to a structure without them. If you only just started then switching won’t cause you much harm and might even be a huge beneficial step.
However, if you’re still using the “old style” urls (?p=) then it’d be wise to switch regardless of how long you’ve been blogging. This will greatly improve your blog’s potential to be found in Google’s search results.

If you do decide to get rid of dates in your permalink structure, you can add the following redirect to your .htaccess file (if you’re on Apache) to ensure that the old URL (/yyyy/mm/dd/%postname%/) points to the new one:

RedirectMatch 301 /d{4}/d{2}/d{2}/(.*) https://yoast.com/$1

For Nginx, you can use the following snippet in your site configuration:

location ~ /d{4}/d{2}/d{2}/(.*) {
rewrite ^(.*)$ https://yoast.com/$1 permanent;

The perfect WordPress SEO URL

Overall, permalink structures won’t differ much from website to website if done correctly. We advise that you make sure your permalink structure is properly set before avidly writing posts. If you do decide to change your permalink structure over time, make sure you properly redirect users from the old structure to the new one.

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I Published And Released A Guide In Thirty Days Despite The Fact That I Didn’t Believe I Can Doit

Andrew Raynor

I just wrote and launched an ebook in 30 days. It wasn’t easy, it wasn’t pretty, and yes I did ugly cry. Despite this, I faced my fears and tackled my paralyzing perfectionism to break through and do the unthinkable… make money from my art.

How I Wrote And Launched A Book In 30 Days Even Though I Didn’t Think I Could Do It

This is the story of how I created a simple product my dream clients actually wanted, wrote over 30,000 words in about a month, and then launched my book, Simple Is The Cure, to my email list of under 500 subscribers to make $800 in a matter of a few weeks.

Last year I was able to attend the second annual Tribe Conference. While there I was privileged to join the VIP mastermind group where Jeff personally spoke into my struggles as a writer.

During the mastermind roundtable, he hopped over to my group, listened to me state my case and matter of factly delivered an assignment to me:

“Write a 30-day devotional combining all of your knowledge as a health coach, artist, and minimalist. Then launch it. We can make you $1000 from the launch easily.”

After our conversation at Tribe, Jeff decided that in order to make the most impact I would need to refocus my efforts. This assignment was never about just making money. If it were, then I’d probably fail and he made that clear from the word go.

“Get 30 women, survey them about their biggest health concerns, and coach them every day for 30 days, getting feedback along the way. When this is over, you’ll have a set of 30 things that people really want, and case studies to prove that what you teach actually works”.

Here’s a step-by-step look at how I took Jeff’s assignment and instructions and implemented them to get the above results.

Tickets for Tribe Conference 2017 are available now! Click here to take advantage of the super early bird discount.

Define the project, set a deadline & go public

Right from the start, Jeff asked me to let my email list know that I was writing a book. The basic instructions from were:

  1. Tell them it’s coming
  2. Tell them it’s almost here
  3. Help them get wins
  4. Tell them it’s here
  5. Let them buy

The plan was clear from the beginning. I would create a product based on what people said they wanted, give people what they said they wanted, get feedback, tweak, pre-sell, build hype, launch, make money, serve more people.

We agreed that the scope would be 30 women getting free coaching for 30 days for the entire month of November. December would be all about writing the draft and pre-selling. And in January, I would build interest and launch the final product. Admittedly, we originally wanted to launch by January 7th, but ended up moving the launch date to January 31st.

Gather a group of willing participants

I’m blessed to have such an amazing network of friends and acquaintances that were willing to join me for an experimental 30 days of simplifying life, health, and wellness.

In October, I wrote a quick introduction email to a list of 30 women I handpicked letting them know what I was doing and how they could get free coaching for 30 days. From the start I let them know that I was doing this project to collect material for a book that would later be for sale.

I started a private Facebook group and started adding people who were on board.

Give them what they want and teach what you know

I then surveyed each of them asking what their biggest struggles were around health, wellness, spirituality, home environment, fashion, etc. I asked them what they wanted to learn about and what would be of most help to them.

The feedback I received directly informed what I taught.

Once the Facebook group was up and running, I gave them a start date (November 1st), some basic rules, and a quick outline of what to expect. I did most of this through videos or Live broadcasts within the group itself.

Shorten the feedback loop

November 1st came and I was so unbelievably nervous.

Could I do this for 30 days straight? I’m a procrastinator. What if they don’t get any value out of this? What if I fail?

I had a lot of physical resistance, but knew to expect this because Jeff warned me that I’d be “kicking and screaming the whole way”. That’s an actual quote.

Day 1 was a video about setting intentions. I gave a quick setup and the assignment and it was done. People watched, people commented. It worked! Hooray. Only 29 more to go.

As I posted more videos, I got more feedback which I implemented. None of the videos were professionally done, scripted out, or beautifully shot. I used my iPhone and my 10 year old MacBook. The key was showing up and giving them what they wanted to the best of my ability.

It wasn’t perfect, which gnawed at every single perfectionist bone in my body. Rather than waiting till I knew what I was going to say or do, I had to act on the feedback of the group.

At Tribe Conference last year, Tim Grahl said that to make progress quickly it’s best to shorten the feedback loop. Don’t wait until you’re three quarters of the way into a project before asking for advice. Get it early and course correct.

This is what I did and it actually became a huge comfort to me. The group was my guide so that I could be theirs.

Get testimonials and determine pricing

November was a fun month. I did 31 or 32 videos in 30 days, had over 20, 1 hour coaching calls, and helped women get clear on what they actually need to be healthy, less stressed, and more balanced.

When the 30 days wrapped, it was time to get more feedback. I wanted to know:

  • Where they started
  • What they overcame
  • Where they ended up
  • What was most helpful
  • What they would ideally pay for the work we did together

I used this information to price the book at $19.00 to start with. A lot of the women said they’d pay $50, $150, or even $500 for the work we did together. When we landed on $19.00 for the pre-sell price and $29.00 for the final price, it felt like a steal.

In fact, I was giving my tribe what they said they wanted a price that they wanted and felt was more than fair.

Pre-sell to prove viability

You might think that pre-selling a book or product before it’s even complete is either insane or dishonest. But I was just following orders.

Jeff asked me to set up a link on Paypal, and send a quick email to only five people from the group letting them know the book was available for pre-order.

Of the five, two people pre-ordered and one was my mom. Thanks mom!

Even though it was only two people, I had what I needed to move forward. My product sold. That’s all that mattered.

Go into a cave and write

During the 30 days of coaching, I was keeping a very, very rough draft going in Google Docs. I did this for three reasons.

  1. I wanted to fill in snippets on the go which I could do from my phone.
  2. Google Docs allows you to dictate your content onto the page. So, I would often speak whole sections in when I was feeling stuck. Later, I could go back and have something to work with.
  3. I loved that I could see the entire outline of my content on the left sidebar. This helped me have a clear understanding where I was in the project at any given stage.

Ultimately, I ended up using Google Docs for the entire project. I chose three fonts to work with and played with the formatting so that I could make it look super slick.

Finish and go ugly early

One of the things that got me through, was Jeff sharing a quote from Tribe Speaker Alumni, Whitney English. Go ugly early.

My goal was to finish; to ship it. December is a crazy time of year for everyone. It’s even more insane when you’re trying to write a book.

Writing was slow and arduous at this time. I plugged in what I could but needed the month of December to hammer out the details and outline of the book.

I also used this time to get more feedback. I shared the earliest rough draft (aka the ugly draft) with my group before it was even halfway complete. I asked them if I was on the right track and what I needed to change.

Create a sales page

Jeff asked me to build a sales where people could learn about the book and order it.

The sales page copy was based on an article from guest blogger, Ray Edwards. You can take a look at that article over here.

Use a minimum viable product to build hype

All of January was about building interest within my community.

At this point, I was still writing feverishly and feeling like it would never come together. Even though I felt far away from my launch deadline of January 31st, Jeff told me it was time to start raising awareness.

I did a free 7-day video series all about how to live a cleaner, better life from the inside out. Every day for 7 days, I invited people to join my email list to participate in this free video training series (again, shot on my iPhone).

My email list went from 346 to 356. People were interested. I shared the videos on Facebook and YouTube.

In these video’s I told people to pre-order the book at $19.00 because they would receive 3 super cool freebies. Also because after the 31st of January, the price would go up.

I had a total of seven sales during that pre-launch phase, four the week after, and 14 the week after that. Last week I sold 13 copies (one cash sale). This plus the two I pre-sold in December comes to 40 sales at $19.00.

Brianna Lamberson Sales

What’s next

All in all, I’m insanely proud of this project. I still have a lot of work ahead of me, but now I have the framework I need to keep moving forward and spreading the message of simple solutions to optimize health and wellness.

The most important thing is that I broke the seal. I have a product. I have knowledge and confidence that I can use to keep moving forward.

Let’s not stop here

If you want to learn more about how to optimize your health and life with simple changes, you’re invited to subscribe to my blog where you’ll get access to a free 7-day video course all about how to live a cleaner, better life from the inside out.

Tickets for Tribe Conference 2017 are available now! Click here to reserve your spot and connect with other writers like Brianna.

What kind of product are you struggling to create? How could you apply lessons from Brianna’s story to start moving the needle? Share in the comments.

Andrew Raynor